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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
426
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Posted - 2015.02.19 19:16:38 -
[1] - Quote
If you want to use plex sizes/times to push the meta for system contestations to larger ship comps why not start with some middle ground and make FW plexes all take the same amount of time to complete?
I worry though about how it will impact things on the solo/micro gang front, as well as for people who may just want to log in for 20-30 minutes, run a plex and maybe get a fight. Doing so in a novice or small at the moment is ideal because of the lower amount of time needed.
Interesting idea though. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
427
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Posted - 2015.02.23 19:32:57 -
[2] - Quote
Julius Foederatus wrote:
I guess my issue is really that the weight of the VPs per plex overincentivizes certain fleet comps. I want FW play to include all ship types effortlessly, instead of us having to essentially go outside the FW framework to (lets be honest here) have infrequent fights with larger ship types.
We wouldn't have taken Okkamon without HACs and Guardians. With the Large plex respawn mechanics now there is quite a bit more demand for hulls that can tank vs 30+ sniper corms. At the end of the day though, if you get pulled into 50+ vs 50+ system grinds with thousands of ships getting blown up bringing T2 Battleships and carriers to large plexes will only get you so far.
Additionally, comps that can "Hold the button" and comps that can Snipe are going to dominate in that arena, and it is generally going to be the ones that do it the best for the cost (Sniper corms for instance).
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
428
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Posted - 2015.02.24 18:46:55 -
[3] - Quote
Zen Lena wrote:I was in a couple of your fleets and I was shocked to see you guys having to give out Cruisers, HACs and logistics to pilots because they were too lazy to bring their own in.
Just off the top of my head here's a few reasons we do it that way.
1. Conformity to standard. You should see some of the fits people bring if they fit their own ships.
2. Activity in the Warzone. The more people in space plexing and pewing the better. If everyone did their own logistics from T1 frigs through Caps, in the quantities we run through ships it would eat up a ton of time.
3. Cost:. Not everyone can afford to keep 5-10 Billion isk tied up in hulls so that they can meet every single comp that is flown.
4. People without alts. They can't get to Jita and buy all the hulls and modules they need. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
428
|
Posted - 2015.02.24 19:30:19 -
[4] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:I think it is smart to have a wide variety of ships to play with and ship to whatever the situation dictates. There is no reason not to have a doctrine for it because not all situations dictate it. There is no reason why GalMil shouldn't have a NavyMega doctrine and use it when needed. For example last month when we dropped Legions on a POS you guys were hitting with Ishtars. We were outside quick reship range and standard capital support range. If GalMil would've shipped too short range Megas and brawled us the fight wouldve been in their favor, instead they docked up screamed blue in local and smack came from both sides. While this doesn't apply to plex fights I think it would be smart to open up the array of ships that you have to use, not everyone is ok using the standard atron/ishtar combo all the time, and players should be rewarded for the desire to ship up for the occasion.
Sure, but where do you keep all the battleships? Eha? Nisuwa? Vlil? Nenna? etc. Do you stock them all in each system? Do you expect all members to keep one of each in all systems?
It's nice to say reship to X doctrine would have worked for X situation, but the nuts and bolts of getting it all rolling is tough. In addition, flying expensive ships, that have a limited ability to disengage, against groups with 20+ supers is just a bad idea 90% of the time unless you have a group on your side who can deal with them. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
428
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:47:20 -
[5] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:You make it sound like this isn't an issue that was solved before plex changes when BS/BC roams were a norm, the small ship plague only happened since the plex changes. In fact it is now easier for a player who doesn't have the sp or the time to mission to make isk because of plex payouts. When I was in GalMil I had BS (that weren't fdu LP) in Nis/Nenna/Vlill. Saying you "cant" do it is either 1)lazy 2)lack confidence in your pilots 3)lack confidence in your logistical chain.
I didn't say we can't do it, I just said it was tough. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
428
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Posted - 2015.02.24 19:57:29 -
[6] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:Dread Operative wrote:You make it sound like this isn't an issue that was solved before plex changes when BS/BC roams were a norm, the small ship plague only happened since the plex changes. In fact it is now easier for a player who doesn't have the sp or the time to mission to make isk because of plex payouts. When I was in GalMil I had BS (that weren't fdu LP) in Nis/Nenna/Vlill. Saying you "cant" do it is either 1)lazy 2)lack confidence in your pilots 3)lack confidence in your logistical chain. I didn't say we can't do it, I just said it wasn't simple. And people should get rewarded for putting in the effort. Corp Hanger provides logi so that will always be covered and pilots spend ~200m (Ishtar price) each to have assets in staged systems that could give you a strategic advantage.
I think we do a decent job at getting/keeping the ships where we need them for strategic advantage (look at the warzone map).
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
428
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Posted - 2015.02.24 20:24:19 -
[7] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Exactly, so there is no reason not to up your game a little and reward those that are willing too.
Up my game in what way? I've been attempting to get better at flying a variety of Algos fits and having a blast!
If you meant gal mil in general, in what way would you like us to up our game? Switch from system control to a cap/super focused entity? That isn't "upping" our game its switching our play style entirely. There have been groups in the past in FW who have done it, but they don't seem to last.
Alternatively, why doesn't SNUFF up their game and join the Caldari?
Competition breeds improvements. If you want people to compete with in the cap/super arena why don't you scout around and find a group of similar size and setup a timer fight with them? I hear SC is nearby. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
429
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Posted - 2015.02.24 21:37:10 -
[8] - Quote
Nothing wrong with doing DED sites. I quite enjoy the RNG drop feeling when you don't get screwed. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
430
|
Posted - 2015.02.25 15:19:11 -
[9] - Quote
Dread Operative wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote: If you meant gal mil in general, in what way would you like us to up our game? Switch from system control to a cap/super focused entity? That isn't "upping" our game its switching our play style entirely. There have been groups in the past in FW who have done it, but they don't seem to last.
I meant in relations to being able and willing to up ship to larger plexs if they were worth more. (This conversation is about Plex mechanics right? Or did I miss the mark?)
Got yah. With regards to larges and using ships with a larger tank than HACs, it isn't currently necessary because Cal Mil can't compete at that ship size.
If Cal mil starts bringing comps where we need to have Battleship sized tanks, then battleships we shall bring. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
434
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Posted - 2015.02.27 14:10:29 -
[10] - Quote
"Changing VP payouts to fall directly in line with the time it takes to complete a plex would be a good change though and would address the current problem of novices and smalls yielding faster progress than the meds and larges."
This seems like a good compromise position, and has the added benefit of making sense. |
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